If they have limited capacity to host guests, this seems like a good idea to me. Alternating years that regulars can show up provides opportunities for other guests.
If they have the ability to reasonably expand their capacity to host, this seems only a little silly to me.
Yeah, I think it’s totally fair to cycle guests if their capacity is limited. There are so many vtubers out there now that I’m sure it’s just not possible to have everyone, and if rotating allows more fans to meet their oshis, I think it’s not a bad thing.
kinda sad that erb can mention gigi on a boys stream (brought up gigi’s birthday on the american horror story watchalong with the boys and all the boys wished her a happy birthday) but she cant mention the boys on gigi’s stream (when asked if she did any ranked marvel rivals erb just said she played a little bit with “others”)
If this is why they’re bad then they must be saints. Everyone in the world would agree that innocuously mentioning a mutual coworker shouldn’t be taboo. Pointing out weird double standards is a proud working class tradition.
I mean im gonna get dv but objectively she is the least popular one for a reason. She actually would do much better in VShojo
Making just 2k cvv for a girl Vtuber in the biggest company is not good, so I don’t blame the other girls in Holo who avoid it.
If they ever get a HoloPh exclusive branch or even HoloEs, yes they, like Kobo and the indo girls, would be able to do it freely since the global south prefers shipping over GFE and platonic gender mixing is much more common than the Global one. I watch a lot of indie ES vtubers and Shipping is the most important aspect basically all ES popular girls have a platonic guy who they have lots of chemistry with. I.E Iron Mouse and (the other) Connor. Everyone in LATAM wants them together and influence the EN audience in turn.
I think she’s fun in group scenarios, especially heavy rp ones like en reco because she’s so free from fear of cringe. But those occassions rarely arise when there isnt some sort of event going on
I prefer Bae, IRyS, and Nerissa as singers over her, tbh. Her voice is great, but the vibratto is grating. The best karaokes are usually from the talents that can’t sing at all, anyway, like Fauna, Ame, or Gigi.
She’s the least popular because while she’s great at singing and does a lot of karaoke, most of everything else she does is a debuff. She doesn’t release covers at a rapid rate and largely plays debuff games (shooters don’t do numbers unless you’re exceptionally good at them) so her lasting archive isn’t appealing to anybody that can’t consistently show up live for her performances. I don’t think male interaction is the issue.
I personally really wish she’d play more games that take advantage of her voice acting skills, like RPGs, but it is what she is. I’d rather have her maintain her status quo doing what she likes and last longer in Holo than chase numbers unnaturally and burn out. She’s going to make enough for a basic living no matter what she does since she’s a Holo girl, particulalry a Holo girl with stage presence who will get drafted onto projects frequently.
She should be making videos or shorts with her voice acting talent. It would be a waste (and dangerous) to voice act long shitty AA games that were not big enough to get an English localization production.
In terms of stream, she always has the chance to start a “path to a hardcore gamer” arc if she’s interested. That would be popular streams on the right timeslot.
I mean, there are also a plethora of shorter indie games that would do nicely played by somebody with VA talent like hers, similar to the Undertale stream she did.
uh huh sure that’s what the EN community said before tempus debuted and look what happened lmao. remember when the r/hololive subreddit used to love posting about the JP boys and even Coco featured memes of them on her meme reviews. then StarsEN happened and shit changed almost immediately.
every language group thinks they’ll be better than those barbaric other language group until they personally have to confront the fact that toxic internet incels are a universal concept when the anime girl of their language starts chatting with an anime boy of their language.
also ridiculous of you to say when Moona and Kobo have gotten into drama with their communities over talking to boys (and in Moona’s case, possibly being married) even Zeta got sick of being shipped with Axel after just one or two collabs with him and basically never publicly interacts with him besides large group stuff like Apex tournaments or covers.
No, it is the infighting the moronic fans can’t stop themselves from getting baited into by trolls that killed the collabs.
Also MagVes having menhera moments and graduating, because those two were the only ones Calli and Kronii actually got close to, then got too busy after they quit.
For the crime of thinking that thousands of shippers can be more annoying to a content creator than the few dozen unicorns that they blocked months ago.
i wasn’t really around for the time where there were still collabs, so i’m wondering: did anything happen to reason why basically none of the girls collab with the boys? because i’m genuinely confused on why even the girls who were holostars fans before debut don’t collab with them and why other girls no longer collab with them despite doing so initially? if it’s just personal preference, that’s obviously fine, nobody should be forced to collab but it just doesn’t really make sense to me, as someone who wasn’t around in the early days. or maybe it’s just them drifting apart as both stars and hololive grew?
The early backlash to the boys that is being peddled is a revision of history. The response to them was largely positive, with a small, but loud number of lunatic idiot unicorns being dumb and antis using them as an excuse to troll. The early group collabs were widely acclaimed and had a ton of traction.
The problem was, streamers are incapable of being not one-guy’d and fans are incapable of being troll-baited. They chose to focus on the small number of haters, over the plethora of fans who genuinely enjoyed those times. The subreddit moderation exploding in early 2023 pretty much allowed the trolls to takeover and make it seem like they were more prevelant than they actually were. Since then, the slapfighting between the trolls and people who are too dumb to ignore them has been endless.
I also remember good will from the general fanbase in the early days of Tempus, but it quickly ran out when people realized that a) they weren’t going to be “brotubers” (whatever that entails) and that b) they were going to collab with EN girls. The damage was extra large because the fans I’m talking about heavily shat on Axel and Altare for having “gay” designs and personalities that appealed too much to women (yeah idk how the logic logics either) while touting MagVes as the brotubers they’d all been waiting for, only for MagVes to be the ones that primarily collabed with the girls.
One guy-ing definitely exacerbated the issue though, especially for Vesper. It compounded very poorly with the downward mental spiral he had while in Stars, regardless of what the cause of his mental spiral was.
I don’t think we can ever fully know what happened behind the scenes. Magni and Vesper were the ones who primarily collabed with a few of the EN girls, it was sort of tense with the girls’ fanbases, then they graduated and things pretty much petered out til Liz showed up. It’s better not to overspeculate as if we actually know something and just take it for what it is.
at the time hololive en only had 9 members and sana’s recent graduation had left the girls feeling kinda down. with both branches being small at the time, collab options were limited and EN co-ed collabs were a new and fresh thing. as for why it doesn’t happen anymore, backlash may be part of it, but it’s negligible. mostly the girls are stacked with work and have new gens to collab with. and let’s not forget tempus have been busy too as they entered their 2nd year.
The other thing that a lot of people don’t remember is what 2022 was like prior to Tempus and for the girls it was rough, no bullshit. Myth was hitting massive burnout after non-stop streaming for nearly 2 years straight, IRyS was absolutely being mismanaged and was starting to show the wear and tear on herself, and Council was hitting 1 year….but Sana was graduating prior to that so they were all just in the pits. Add in that there were so many hiatuses and down weeks where, out of 11 girls, maybe 3 of them were regularly streaming at any given time. This is the timeframe where the “EN3 DOKO” meme originated, after all.
As others have said, Tempus weren’t hated initially. Looking back now there are multitudes of things I think everyone would’ve and should’ve done differently, but no one was outright despised or hated.
This entire time period is hard to condense down, especially looking at it from hindsight.
True i think this is why back then a not insignificant amount of the seething centered on the Stars being a resource drain that should have gone to them girls instead– fans saw the poor morale in their branch while a new male branch dropped 2 gens in quick succession and severely misdirected their frustration from management onto the new branch. It’s similar to the fans that take their anger out on the girls over mistreatment of the Stars these days, except back then it occurred on a massive scale.
You definitely nailed one of my main thoughts. I also think that, at the time, while fans understood the girls were stressed and sick and needed time off, they were also frustrated and even annoyed with them. There were points where all people wanted the most bare bones minimum number of streams possible, but didn’t get anything for weeks at a time. And fans didn’t want to shit on the girls, and for some of these things, they couldn’t blame management (sickness, etc ). But who could they take it out on? Oh, these new guys who are having it really easy…
I’m absolutely not saying these fans were justified. Some of it was fucking unfair to HQ, as they were hired before any of the problems with the girls started attacking up. But it’s understandable that it was general frustration where the blame couldn’t be directed at anyone, especially not the girls (even when the girls probably did have some fault) as they would have been seen as assholes and run out.
Nobody in Hololive EN collabs at all with Holostars any more except Bae and Liz, I’m not sure being “too busy” is enough to really explain it. I think the Hololive fanbase largely doesn’t want it and doesn’t “reward” it.
And I’m not talking about open hate and the vocal minority of schizos, there are a lot of subtle ways fans get that across and the branch as a whole seems very attuned to it after all the drama when Tempus first debuted.
Bae hasn’t had a real StarsEN collab in a year, since the Barbie watchalong with Shinri and Bettel. The only thing since then was a prerecorded karaoke with Hakka and Altare, which really doesn’t count. Implying the holoEN girls aren’t busy while mentioning Bae, who is probably the busiest of all of them, is nuts.
Bae hasn’t had time this year to collab a lot in general, which just goes to show how much people here watch her. Which is not a lot because you all only see the girls as targets their oshis can leech off of.
As much as I like the EN boys, I am glad she is closer to the JP boys, because Starmin aren’t insufferable like you all are.
yeah, rather than backlash what they probably see is a difference in excitement from the core of their “hololive biased” fans. Every new holo member would notice their fans being x10 more excited and interested in their collabs with a popular female senpai than a collab with a male senpai they barely know.
Stuff like that can lead to this kind of status quo. Where female collabs are way more frequent.
the only ones Mori and Kronii had any kind of chemistry with were Vesper and Magni. After they graduated, Kronii pretty much went back to not interacting with males, and Mori doesnt interact unless its special events like lives, or GTA etc. all the other girls were already known as stars collabers.
Nah. I reserve my passive aggressive bullshit for people who actively shun the boys, not just people wanting to do their own thing without making a big deal out of it. There is a difference, and that professional courtesy goes a long way for my addled brain.
Who do you think is “actively shunning” the boys? Is that different from “completely ignoring them”, which is what basically all ENs other than Bae, Elizabeth, and Calli do these days?
Off the top of my head, I can think of three (technically four) talents who I’d put on the list, based on on-stream behavior:
IRyS appeasing unicorns in her chat by insisting she isn’t going to be interacting with any Stars during the Overwatch collab they were (presumably) forced to do before Cover seemingly shelved the HLZNTL idea. This was a regression from her initial stance that she just wanted to chill and focus on collab primarily with people she’s already familiar with.
FuwaMoco and the minor incident of going dead-ass silent during a mutual promotion stream featuring art of the boys and the girls. Would’ve easily been addressed by just stating later that they were surprised and not comfortable talking about people they don’t know/don’t work with. They literally have a segment on their morning show for addressing misunderstandings like that. But by not just making a quick clarification, it reads to me as a deliberate choice.
Mio from JP was clipped saying bluntly that she tries not to collab with any men, which is perfectly fine. In the same clip, she goes on to say that she feels uncomfortable or grossed out even seeing one of her co-workers streaming with a man. She acknowledges there’s nothing wrong with it and they’re free to do so, then reiterates her own personal “Yuck” about it. Tried to just express her personal preference, but throwing it out there on stream reads as very low-grade shaming of her co-workers that aren’t as averse to cross-gender collabs. In her defense, this last one is a TL clip, so it’s possible I’m being bamboozled by the person who posted it.
Basically the line for me is when you go from just saying “Please respect my boundaries,” which is healthy, to behavior that constitutes an active choice to enable toxicity towards your own co-workers. They all work for Cover, even if they aren’t close with one another or even required to be.
None of these is a major thing worth freaking out over, but they’re little jabs that make it more likely some incel is going to act like an incel when some other girl wants to stream with one of the boys, or work on a song with them, etc. I respect that they might’ve felt uncomfortable or unsafe not enabling said incels, since freaky fans are going to do freaky fan shit. But I don’t appreciate the implicit decision to redirect ire towards the Stars for their own safety.
Not really. FSP are perfectly okay with mentioning female vtubers by name – they’ve praised their singing, etc. on stream, and they don’t try to “score points” by ignoring them, they just don’t do mixed gender collabs.
IRyS got two bait superchats, one from the weirdo that Kronii banned. You can check this on hololyzer. Also, she got heavily harassed in the comments of that vod (example: being called a “sexist bitch” that’s “pandering to losers”). She is a victim, not an instigator of anything.The Fwmc situation wouldn’t be discussed at all if: 1) Bae had been faster at picking up the hypetrain from where they left it. 2) The boys promoted their own Expo activities on their own channels to their own fans in the way that they communities prefer it. Loads of harassment on the comments of that vod as well.Yuck is a mistranslation of a japanese onomatopeya. Mio is a wonderful person, you are looking too much into it. Mio also got targeted horribly by sickos from communities like okbh.Take meds nonnie.
Respectfully, them being harassed by people also being assholes does not inherently invalidate their actions. You can be both a victim and someone making a victim out of someone else, or more generously, a victim and someone not interfering to help someone else.
I think the notion that it is the fault of Bae or the boys that someone else was impolite to them is extremely unkind. You’re absolutely right that a lot of hateful comments were made, and I don’t condone those.
I don’t go out of my way to harass anyone. But I’m also not going to do what I’m reading you as doing here, which is trying to paint over the questionable actions of otherwise fine people just because they have also been victims of toxicity. This isn’t a binary.
The implication there is that just frequenting this site indicates someone is an unreasonable person. I don’t know how I can be any more reasonable with you.
Nor do I know how I can be any more generous in my attempt to respond to you civilly and give a fair interpretation of what you’re saying short of, like. Brushing your hair and rocking you like a baby while we disagree on a fundamental concept like, “You can be a victim of bad things and also do bad things.” That’s the type of moral nuance they’re supposed to teach you in primary school.
Stigmatizing associating with male content creators/Vtubers, which would implicitly include some of your coworkers (Mio)
Failing to extend the same courtesy to your male coworkers you show to every female coworker, regardless of familiarity (FuwaMoco)
Othering your male co-workers to appease the worst part of your fanbase (IRyS)
Perpetuating toxicity towards fellow talents, actively, either for self-defense from incels or to continue financially benefitting from them (All)
If the substance of my concerns were about the girls who just express a preference in content and found success without involving men in their content creation, I would have listed a lot more of the girls. There’s a lot of the girls who just don’t engage with the boys, and technically they’re all passively contributing to their coworkers being ostracized by some of their fans.
It is, in my eyes, far more productive to point out the ones who contextually made an active choice to pour gas on the metaphorical fire. And even then, I don’t advocate for anything beyond acknowledging that’s what they did. I don’t watch them, but I don’t bother crusading against them either.
“Stigmatizing associating with male content creators/Vtubers.” How is saying “there’s no problem with that, but I prefer girls interactions” stigmatizing? Please elaborate. These resentful mental gymnastics are incredible
Fwmc were not the more experienced talents in that room, it was unfortunate that their slide was the last one before holostars. And again, we would 1000% NOT be talking about this if Bae had jumped in quicker to hype the boys.
“appease the worst part of your fanbase” The superchatters that baited irys (and also fauna) were not part of her community. You are, again, being resentful and hateful. Irys community had 0 problems with the collab a fact made obvious by reading the comments of her vods. The only toxicity were from people like you that has shared this sentiment of her being an enabler for well over a year now and won’t ever forgive her.
I don’t need to comment about this. Your moral compass is absolutely corrupted.
No ever mentions a problem from last week. It’s always these handful of situations from years ago that were prompted by baiters, unfortunate mistakes and/or staff negligence.
You are welcome to continue to be as productive as you want in this holostar community maintained doxxblog
1) The “even seeing someone interacting with a male content creator, my reaction is Yuck” part, in front of however many hundreds or thousands of viewers were watching the stream at the time. I am paraphrasing. Pretty cleanly fits the latter half of a basic definition of “stigmatize.”
2) You are absolutely correct to point out their lack of experience in a Vtubing context. In a broader entertainment and promotion context, they have been doing this on and off for several years. But more substantively, I again disagree with your assertion that their senpai are responsible for covering for them if it means they deserve no responsibility for the mistake.
3) Neither of us has a way to accurately verify who is or is not part of anyone’s fanbase. We can only hope that your assertion is correct, because that would reflect more positively on her behavior. However, being baited into a pandering response still means you pandered. She is an adult, and therefore responsible for what she says.
4) You don’t actually know anything about my moral character. You’re engaging in ad hominen, and it’s probably not from a desire to no longer discuss the subject since you revived a comment thread from two days ago.
Now in the spirit of goodwill, I am absolutely willing to acknowledge they may have improved in these areas. I brought up these specific instances because someone asked me to explain what I meant by an earlier statement.
I explicitly said these things are not worth freaking out over, and that my reaction is to not give them my personal views or money. If trying to make me a strawman for whoever’s still jumping into their socials or stream chat to harass them makes you feel better, please feel free. But that isn’t me.
You could replace yuck with the correct onomatopoeia and it would not change anything she said. Maybe I’m starting to get too old for the naivety this community harbors, but I am very tired of acting like every single woman in Holo is a saint when they themselves have admitted that not everybody gets along. You may consider Mio a wonderful person, and I’m sure she is most of the time, but what she said was backhanded; any woman who has been in a working environment or a friend group with other women can pick up on that. She did not have to mention how she felt about her coworkers when she already stated her preference, and yet she still did.
Secondly, FWMC are thirty+ year old women who have been in the idol scene for years. They have no doubt followed both Holo and Niji for a long time and thus have knowledge of Stars, alongside general Hololive events. What they did was unprofessional, they know it, and their actions should not fall onto their junior (as Bae is younger than them) to cover up. That’s not how things work. And you are blatantly lying about the Expo comments as well: I was there since day one of that trainwreck and all I saw were nothing but anti-Stars statements and many misogynistic comments directed at starmin and female management. Any starmin who voiced their disappointment or concern was dogpiled.
Do not lie about Mio. She referred male vtubers and male content creators. Not male coworkers. She also made it clear there’s no problem about collabing, she has her personal preferences. Imagine that: a woman freely sharing what she prefers.Do not lie about the comments. Go to the vod, sort by new and scroll down a little bit. You’ll find the hate directed at the talents that didn’t get removed.I believe all talents are “saints” (i prefer the less idiotic term “good people”), both in stars and in holo. The communities are very similar as well. Both talents and communities from both branches are subject of harassment.Thankfully for you the stars community isn’t as targeted and as hated as the holo community.
At least in IRyS’ case I think she was between a rock and a hard place. From how it was told, management was begging girls to join that collab after all the big names completely turned them down, and the ones they got were the only ones in the entire company willing to do it. So singling her out for ire seems really wrong. She was willing to work with them at all, even though it was conditional and no VC, when NOBODY else would. I mean damn, would it have been preferable for her to just hardline put her foot down and completely refuse to have anything at all to do with Holostars? Which is what EVERYONE ELSE DID. She arguably did more with them than most other girls were willing to, not less, and yet she has caught unrelenting shit for it for YEARS. I’m sure she has learned her lesson and will now treat them as completely radioactive.As far as FWMC, I dunno, their silence could be considered rude or just them being caught off guard by something they didn’t expect. I think they don’t want men involved in their careers at all and it’s hard for me to be angry at them about that, it feels unfeminist to sit here and say that women HAVE to involve men in their art/job if they don’t want to.As far as Mio goes, I don’t speak Japanese and can’t comment.
I was not aware of any such information stating that IRyS only agreed to it because of so many others refusing to collaborate with the boys. May I ask for your source on that? I’d have to factor that into my opinion of the situation going forward if true, but I don’t think it would necessarily justify her behavior.
That said, I’m also not interested in hounding her (or anyone else) about it, and I only brought it up to answer someone else’s question. Me feeling passive aggression towards specific talents largely just manifests in me not tuning in for content featuring them. Collabs, covers, orisongs, etc. I’m not one of the folks who’s going to waste time spewing bile in other forums or being a nuisance in chat, anything like that.
As for the FWMC portion, I hoped I had addressed that when I offered that all I would’ve expected from them is a brief explanation of, “We aren’t comfortable interacting with/commenting on these coworkers we don’t know” in their Misunderstanding segment on any morning show after it happened. I’m not the one asking them to involve men in their job– Cover, their employer, did when they were asked to or assigned to being on the stream in question.
I’m definitely not an expert on the subject, and I’m a cis man so I don’t have personal experience in this area, but I don’t think the ask that they react in a polite, friendly manner to all of their co-workers on a promotional stream is any more anti-feminist than the standard expectations of our capitalist hellscape.
NTA but I do remember Towa talked about HLZNTL at one point and from what she said, it was kind of a mess all around and none of the talents really had any fun with it outside of making some industry connections. I don’t hold anything against the girls for feeling weird about the whole thing either. IRyS’s comments were odd (why would they be in the same VC as their opponents?…), but I chalk it up to the situation overall.
As for your second talking point, I agree that what Fuwamoco did was unprofessional. HoloExpo has always had the Stars included, and even the girls who are strictly “No Men” with their content have been able to either vamp about them or were just quiet and let their other co-host(s) talk for them. There’s a zero % chance they went into that stream with no idea that they weren’t going to see the key art (the guys have always been on it) and outfits with the guys, and Ina & Bae’s reactions to them going silent tells me that they didn’t expect them to do that at all.
(Considering when Advent did the Justice debut watch along and when Liz’s slides showed her drawings of the Stars (which they obviously wouldn’t have known about), Fuwamoco went totally silent and their models immediately went neutral while the rest of Advent were still able to comment says this behavior was intentional.)
I have absolutely no problem with the girls having set their own boundaries. That’s extremely fair and they are the masters of their own content. The boys would be just as valid if they said they would have a policy of “no women on stream” in the same way. However, I will say that that doesn’t give you licence to be a dick and/or unprofessional to people who just exist in your company and don’t interact with you, no matter the popularity. And I would just as disappointed and complain about the boys just as much if they did the exact same thing as in the above instance.
(I’m saying this as a woman who works around men and is still a big fan of the girls.)
>or were just quiet and let their other co-host(s) talk for them
Is this not literally exactly what Fuwamoco did? They didn’t hiss and say “eww, holostars, fuck off with that shit!”. They just went quiet and let Bae and Ina do the talking.
I do know what you mean, but not exactly. It was more how it led up to that moment that feels pointed.
(As someone who watched it live) When they got to the section showing off the outfits for all the talents, Fuwamoco were excitedly reacting to all the gens as each passed by. Like “KYAA~ (name)-senpai! It’s (gen name)!” type stuff. Ina and Bae were also reacting and talking, but you can tell they were letting the twins carry the energy forward. It was honestly nice and really wholesome.
But when it got to the Stars, they just fully stopped talking. Dead silence. Bae and Ina were clearly kind of surprised and quickly took over for the boys, but for just, what, 20-30 seconds it felt so awkward.
I guess it’s what the Nonnie below me said: it drew negative attention because prior to that moment there was only positivity.
NTA, but I think the disagreement here will be the difference between “being quiet and letting co-hosts pick up the slack” versus the utter silence and stonefaced treatment that FuwaMoco have done on the Expo promotion stream and allegedly* on the Justice debut watchalong.
I’m taking the position that there is a difference between those two things. The stonefaced, dead-silent approach is a more extreme version of just assuming a quieter role in the conversation, and draws negative attention because of that extremity making it more disruptive to the flow of said conversation.
*I haven’t gone to watch that VOD yet to see for myself.
Further elaboration because I’m an idiot and don’t want to mess up my reply’s formatting:
The actual stonefaced silence on the Justice watchalong, if true, indicates an even more extreme response than just what happened on the Expo promo stream. To achieve that effect, you’d have to either actively stay stock-still, turn your model/face tracking off, or get up and walk away from the PC.
The possibility of them just noping out of sitting at their PC for the handful of seconds that a Holostar is on their screen is as comic as it would be tragic, since that’s a pretty extreme response.
Did my due diligence and went to watch the Justice debut watchalong portion in question. Their behavior didn’t actually strike me as any more awkward or quiet than anyone else, they just smiled and nodded along agreeably. I think it was better handled than the Expo segment, so the demon guard puppies get credit for that.
we know it’s gonna happen. i know anyone should be free to collab to whoever they want they’re comfortable with, but i’m still shaking my head when Jurard and Octavio organizing Justice watchalong debut with Armis. what exactly they’re trying to achieve from that? it’s not like most of the girls gonna acknowledge them anyway. if anything, those “people” gonna call them “leeching” their debut. even Ruze feels like he doesn’t wanna be there (late on both streams). thank god ERB acknowledge the whole Stars, on her debut even (so much respect for her).
gigi probably wants it that way. i mean this with all the love in the world for her and don’t wanna come across as a gigi hater, but she is definitely the type to want no boys in her idol shows, and that probably extends to her holo career as well. i didn’t follow her PL but i don’t think she had any male interactions back then either.
more pl activitiesgigi pl also a massive fan of uki. she actively interact with him and drew fanart of him. and we know how raora literally was in merry’s big collab with armis few months before her debut and she’s so close with merry to the point they often travel together in japan.for advent, did you know that nerissa’s pl was there in live chat in past axel’s stream.Then after hololive they suddenly act like they don’t like male
it’s really shitty how they act like fans at first but then throw the boys away the second they find success in hololive…. it’s like the boys are just stepping stones to them. so many indie female vtubers claimed to be fans back when tempus debuted and then just vanished over time because they just wanted to latch themselves onto the new big thing. i’m starting to see who the real leeches are.
Dude Raora did not need to leech of of the boys what are you on about lol. She was the mama of several significant female vtubers and Merry is her boyfriend, interaction with the boys was coincidental to her generally large presence in the scene. Nerissa was similarly an established VA/anisong cover singer with individual videos racking up 10M+ views before joining Holo. Gigi was a member of V4Mirai who had already had her 3D debut and proven her ability for diverse stream content/fanbase building.
Claiming these women got their places in Holo simply by leeching men then throwing them away is ridiculously reductive to their prior careers. I know you’re upset but get a grip. They interacted with the boys and were open fans of them because they wanted to be, not because they needed to leech the numbers.
As someone who has only watches the guys this is the biggest schizo reach ever. I love my mans with all my heart. I give all my extra money to my oshi, but even I think your statement is either bait or the dumbest comment in history by saying the girls are using them as a stepping stone, when most of the girls have an avg of 4k+ on a bad day is extremely stupid. How can they be a stepping stone when the audience is not even the same *smacks you in your empty ass head* think use your brain and think
Who has ever actually gotten more successful interacting with a Holostar? Nobody. And in most of these cases (all of these cases?) we aren’t even talking about collabs, just freaking tweets.
Depending on how you wanna quantify it, Nana’s collab with Octavio is her secondmost popular cover on YouTube, and her most popular in over a year. Her post-cover release stream with Jurard is her second most-viewed VOD period on YouTube.But zero shade towards Nana, she’s fun as fuck.
I think it was revealed back in nyfco under the advent page that Nerissa’s PL is a vestie. Her pl name was in chat while waiting for Vesper’s stream.
Ngl, but I think most of the girls want their pl separated from their Hololive which probably includes their interaction with male vtubers in the past. They do seem to be aware of how rabid the Hololive EN fandom is when it comes to interacting with male vtubers/streamers inside and outside of HoloPro. But again, it’s a job after all. Maybe behind the scenes and off-stream, they might have interacted with the boys which is none of our business.
Maybe behind the scenes and off-stream, they might have interacted with the boys which is none of our business.
I have to wonder how some of the boys feel about something like that. “Hi, I’d love to talk to you, but I’m not going to acknowledge your existence on my streams because you’re bad for business.” is not exactly a flattering foundation to build a friendship on.
I don’t know why the assumption seems to be this when we really don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. It’s bad for the girls, but the boys also get vehemently shat on whenever they interact with the girls– if we’re speculating it could very well be that there’s a general agreement on both sides that separation is better for everybody’s sake because of rabid fanbases. I find it concerning that so many are quick to jump on “it’s the girls choosing this for profit” despite the known behavior of fanbases beyond their control. Even before StarsEN debuted, girls would talk about being scared for their safety and Ame even mentioned sleeping with a bat and getting scared over small noises thinking it was inevitable that a crazy fan would eventually find her address. I’m not assuming anything, but there’s plenty to argue against putting such a self-interested negative light on the girls if you’re going to make baseless claims.
It’s still incredibly degrading and demeaning to go “Hey I know I have one of the worst fanbases on earth and they’ll think they you interacting with me means you want to date me and be a sex pest or they’ll harass you and doxx you but do you wanna be friends fellow coworker :D” . The girls have it rough as any female content creators do and I would never ever blame them for fearing for their safety. But they DO encourage their fanbase of simps and do it for profit yes it’s bad for business. There’s a reason why ERB fans don’t harass any of the boys. There’s a reason why Ollie fans don’t harass any of the boys. I feel for the girls immensely, they have one of the worst positions to be in as a female content creator but also let’s not lie and say it’s for the boys sake as well and that this could be some sort of we both love having secret friendships situation when the boys have been out and willing to take it. We are both just speculating.
This is different than characterizing them as behind the scenes forming self-interested and disingenous friendships with the boys based on nothing. I don’t disagree with you here, but still disagree with the post I originally replied to.
Hi I know I cant prove it but that was me. I took a break after that chat and got over myself, and I was only upset about the kimonos to begin with. It was a lot more about personal shit than the talents honestly.
None of whatever has been going on today was me though I dunno what the hell is going on in here today
Shiori’s new outfit probably won’t be a nurse because it doesn’t fit the casual theme other members seem to be going with but like… the silhouette… it would be so hot if it was a nurse…
Also nerissa’s short hair is going to kill me.
I’m sorry but does anyone know who this is talking about?
I’ve never seen or heard of a vtuber alt talking about this on my TL & this sounds so insane and outlandish to tweet. 😭😭😭
the way you named the color…
It definitely not Shinri favourite way of description 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He hate confusing name of food taste, of course he’s going to be so confused on confusing name color too
guys I know it’s weird to ask you this. but why corpo male vtubers don’t have nipples? Even in official artwork, they rarely show them. Are nipples considered too sexual for professional setting?
Wtf? No? when you join a corpo you and your genmates bite off each others nipples as a rite of companionship. Lurk more, evbdy knows this. Mechabirbo was originally popular BECAUSE they were each others designated nipple brothers.
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What do you think of the new Off-kai rules?
I would never interstate travel for M&G an indie 💀
the ones speaking in favor of the new rule are mostly 2view like M&G girl whooomst? Delulu behavior
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What rules?
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If you want to discuss this kind of thing you need to provide context
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not op but assuming this is what they’re referring to
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If they have limited capacity to host guests, this seems like a good idea to me. Alternating years that regulars can show up provides opportunities for other guests.
If they have the ability to reasonably expand their capacity to host, this seems only a little silly to me.
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Yeah, I think it’s totally fair to cycle guests if their capacity is limited. There are so many vtubers out there now that I’m sure it’s just not possible to have everyone, and if rotating allows more fans to meet their oshis, I think it’s not a bad thing.
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kinda sad that erb can mention gigi on a boys stream (brought up gigi’s birthday on the american horror story watchalong with the boys and all the boys wished her a happy birthday) but she cant mention the boys on gigi’s stream (when asked if she did any ranked marvel rivals erb just said she played a little bit with “others”)
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This is why no one likes StarsEN fans.
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If this is why they’re bad then they must be saints. Everyone in the world would agree that innocuously mentioning a mutual coworker shouldn’t be taboo. Pointing out weird double standards is a proud working class tradition.
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I mean im gonna get dv but objectively she is the least popular one for a reason. She actually would do much better in VShojo
Making just 2k cvv for a girl Vtuber in the biggest company is not good, so I don’t blame the other girls in Holo who avoid it.
If they ever get a HoloPh exclusive branch or even HoloEs, yes they, like Kobo and the indo girls, would be able to do it freely since the global south prefers shipping over GFE and platonic gender mixing is much more common than the Global one. I watch a lot of indie ES vtubers and Shipping is the most important aspect basically all ES popular girls have a platonic guy who they have lots of chemistry with. I.E Iron Mouse and (the other) Connor. Everyone in LATAM wants them together and influence the EN audience in turn.
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She’s boring as a streamer if you don’t care about the karaoke, that’s why she’s not as popular.
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I think she’s fun in group scenarios, especially heavy rp ones like en reco because she’s so free from fear of cringe. But those occassions rarely arise when there isnt some sort of event going on
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Even if you do like karaoke. She’s very good but lbr scatting isn’t everyone’s cuppa
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I prefer Bae, IRyS, and Nerissa as singers over her, tbh. Her voice is great, but the vibratto is grating. The best karaokes are usually from the talents that can’t sing at all, anyway, like Fauna, Ame, or Gigi.
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She’s the least popular because while she’s great at singing and does a lot of karaoke, most of everything else she does is a debuff. She doesn’t release covers at a rapid rate and largely plays debuff games (shooters don’t do numbers unless you’re exceptionally good at them) so her lasting archive isn’t appealing to anybody that can’t consistently show up live for her performances. I don’t think male interaction is the issue.
I personally really wish she’d play more games that take advantage of her voice acting skills, like RPGs, but it is what she is. I’d rather have her maintain her status quo doing what she likes and last longer in Holo than chase numbers unnaturally and burn out. She’s going to make enough for a basic living no matter what she does since she’s a Holo girl, particulalry a Holo girl with stage presence who will get drafted onto projects frequently.
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She should be making videos or shorts with her voice acting talent. It would be a waste (and dangerous) to voice act long shitty AA games that were not big enough to get an English localization production.
In terms of stream, she always has the chance to start a “path to a hardcore gamer” arc if she’s interested. That would be popular streams on the right timeslot.
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I mean, there are also a plethora of shorter indie games that would do nicely played by somebody with VA talent like hers, similar to the Undertale stream she did.
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uh huh sure that’s what the EN community said before tempus debuted and look what happened lmao. remember when the r/hololive subreddit used to love posting about the JP boys and even Coco featured memes of them on her meme reviews. then StarsEN happened and shit changed almost immediately.
every language group thinks they’ll be better than those barbaric other language group until they personally have to confront the fact that toxic internet incels are a universal concept when the anime girl of their language starts chatting with an anime boy of their language.
also ridiculous of you to say when Moona and Kobo have gotten into drama with their communities over talking to boys (and in Moona’s case, possibly being married) even Zeta got sick of being shipped with Axel after just one or two collabs with him and basically never publicly interacts with him besides large group stuff like Apex tournaments or covers.
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Unicorns don’t kill collabs
Shippers do
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No, it is the infighting the moronic fans can’t stop themselves from getting baited into by trolls that killed the collabs.
Also MagVes having menhera moments and graduating, because those two were the only ones Calli and Kronii actually got close to, then got too busy after they quit.
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Please, don’t even try it idiot . unicorns are the ones sending death threats
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Personal insult right of the bat
For the crime of thinking that thousands of shippers can be more annoying to a content creator than the few dozen unicorns that they blocked months ago.
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i wasn’t really around for the time where there were still collabs, so i’m wondering: did anything happen to reason why basically none of the girls collab with the boys? because i’m genuinely confused on why even the girls who were holostars fans before debut don’t collab with them and why other girls no longer collab with them despite doing so initially? if it’s just personal preference, that’s obviously fine, nobody should be forced to collab but it just doesn’t really make sense to me, as someone who wasn’t around in the early days. or maybe it’s just them drifting apart as both stars and hololive grew?
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The early backlash to the boys that is being peddled is a revision of history. The response to them was largely positive, with a small, but loud number of lunatic idiot unicorns being dumb and antis using them as an excuse to troll. The early group collabs were widely acclaimed and had a ton of traction.
The problem was, streamers are incapable of being not one-guy’d and fans are incapable of being troll-baited. They chose to focus on the small number of haters, over the plethora of fans who genuinely enjoyed those times. The subreddit moderation exploding in early 2023 pretty much allowed the trolls to takeover and make it seem like they were more prevelant than they actually were. Since then, the slapfighting between the trolls and people who are too dumb to ignore them has been endless.
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I also remember good will from the general fanbase in the early days of Tempus, but it quickly ran out when people realized that a) they weren’t going to be “brotubers” (whatever that entails) and that b) they were going to collab with EN girls. The damage was extra large because the fans I’m talking about heavily shat on Axel and Altare for having “gay” designs and personalities that appealed too much to women (yeah idk how the logic logics either) while touting MagVes as the brotubers they’d all been waiting for, only for MagVes to be the ones that primarily collabed with the girls.
One guy-ing definitely exacerbated the issue though, especially for Vesper. It compounded very poorly with the downward mental spiral he had while in Stars, regardless of what the cause of his mental spiral was.
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Because it was never “the girls” collabing with “the boys”
It’s always X person collabing with Y person. If Y is gone, then why would X suddenly start collabing with Z as a replacement?
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I don’t think we can ever fully know what happened behind the scenes. Magni and Vesper were the ones who primarily collabed with a few of the EN girls, it was sort of tense with the girls’ fanbases, then they graduated and things pretty much petered out til Liz showed up. It’s better not to overspeculate as if we actually know something and just take it for what it is.
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at the time hololive en only had 9 members and sana’s recent graduation had left the girls feeling kinda down. with both branches being small at the time, collab options were limited and EN co-ed collabs were a new and fresh thing. as for why it doesn’t happen anymore, backlash may be part of it, but it’s negligible. mostly the girls are stacked with work and have new gens to collab with. and let’s not forget tempus have been busy too as they entered their 2nd year.
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The other thing that a lot of people don’t remember is what 2022 was like prior to Tempus and for the girls it was rough, no bullshit. Myth was hitting massive burnout after non-stop streaming for nearly 2 years straight, IRyS was absolutely being mismanaged and was starting to show the wear and tear on herself, and Council was hitting 1 year….but Sana was graduating prior to that so they were all just in the pits. Add in that there were so many hiatuses and down weeks where, out of 11 girls, maybe 3 of them were regularly streaming at any given time. This is the timeframe where the “EN3 DOKO” meme originated, after all.
As others have said, Tempus weren’t hated initially. Looking back now there are multitudes of things I think everyone would’ve and should’ve done differently, but no one was outright despised or hated.
This entire time period is hard to condense down, especially looking at it from hindsight.
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True i think this is why back then a not insignificant amount of the seething centered on the Stars being a resource drain that should have gone to them girls instead– fans saw the poor morale in their branch while a new male branch dropped 2 gens in quick succession and severely misdirected their frustration from management onto the new branch. It’s similar to the fans that take their anger out on the girls over mistreatment of the Stars these days, except back then it occurred on a massive scale.
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You definitely nailed one of my main thoughts. I also think that, at the time, while fans understood the girls were stressed and sick and needed time off, they were also frustrated and even annoyed with them. There were points where all people wanted the most bare bones minimum number of streams possible, but didn’t get anything for weeks at a time. And fans didn’t want to shit on the girls, and for some of these things, they couldn’t blame management (sickness, etc ). But who could they take it out on? Oh, these new guys who are having it really easy…
I’m absolutely not saying these fans were justified. Some of it was fucking unfair to HQ, as they were hired before any of the problems with the girls started attacking up. But it’s understandable that it was general frustration where the blame couldn’t be directed at anyone, especially not the girls (even when the girls probably did have some fault) as they would have been seen as assholes and run out.
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Nobody in Hololive EN collabs at all with Holostars any more except Bae and Liz, I’m not sure being “too busy” is enough to really explain it. I think the Hololive fanbase largely doesn’t want it and doesn’t “reward” it.
And I’m not talking about open hate and the vocal minority of schizos, there are a lot of subtle ways fans get that across and the branch as a whole seems very attuned to it after all the drama when Tempus first debuted.
It it is what it is, in any case.
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Bae hasn’t had a real StarsEN collab in a year, since the Barbie watchalong with Shinri and Bettel. The only thing since then was a prerecorded karaoke with Hakka and Altare, which really doesn’t count. Implying the holoEN girls aren’t busy while mentioning Bae, who is probably the busiest of all of them, is nuts.
Bae hasn’t had time this year to collab a lot in general, which just goes to show how much people here watch her. Which is not a lot because you all only see the girls as targets their oshis can leech off of.
As much as I like the EN boys, I am glad she is closer to the JP boys, because Starmin aren’t insufferable like you all are.
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>negligible
yeah, rather than backlash what they probably see is a difference in excitement from the core of their “hololive biased” fans. Every new holo member would notice their fans being x10 more excited and interested in their collabs with a popular female senpai than a collab with a male senpai they barely know.
Stuff like that can lead to this kind of status quo. Where female collabs are way more frequent.
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the only ones Mori and Kronii had any kind of chemistry with were Vesper and Magni. After they graduated, Kronii pretty much went back to not interacting with males, and Mori doesnt interact unless its special events like lives, or GTA etc. all the other girls were already known as stars collabers.
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You keep repeating this. How about talking magves future? No? Ok.
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huh?
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Yup, everyone goes huh everytime someone asks about magves today’s life and their future.
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https://youtu.be/–xnGO6K5Wk?si=Tzkqm098poz3tkgn
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What is this random link? You think everyone is your grandma?
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You have a Graveyard page to talk about them. Use it.
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That place is haunted, even ghosts scared of it.
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boy/stars topics are banned because it ruins the gfe immersion of viewers, look at fwmc lmaoo
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I refuse to support star haters ERB is the only hololive talent worth supporting these days
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Nah. I reserve my passive aggressive bullshit for people who actively shun the boys, not just people wanting to do their own thing without making a big deal out of it. There is a difference, and that professional courtesy goes a long way for my addled brain.
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Who do you think is “actively shunning” the boys? Is that different from “completely ignoring them”, which is what basically all ENs other than Bae, Elizabeth, and Calli do these days?
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Off the top of my head, I can think of three (technically four) talents who I’d put on the list, based on on-stream behavior:
Basically the line for me is when you go from just saying “Please respect my boundaries,” which is healthy, to behavior that constitutes an active choice to enable toxicity towards your own co-workers. They all work for Cover, even if they aren’t close with one another or even required to be.
None of these is a major thing worth freaking out over, but they’re little jabs that make it more likely some incel is going to act like an incel when some other girl wants to stream with one of the boys, or work on a song with them, etc. I respect that they might’ve felt uncomfortable or unsafe not enabling said incels, since freaky fans are going to do freaky fan shit. But I don’t appreciate the implicit decision to redirect ire towards the Stars for their own safety.
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Woah… They’re the female counterpart of fsp refusing any female vtuber interaction. That’s crazyy
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Not really. FSP are perfectly okay with mentioning female vtubers by name – they’ve praised their singing, etc. on stream, and they don’t try to “score points” by ignoring them, they just don’t do mixed gender collabs.
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IRyS got two bait superchats, one from the weirdo that Kronii banned. You can check this on hololyzer. Also, she got heavily harassed in the comments of that vod (example: being called a “sexist bitch” that’s “pandering to losers”). She is a victim, not an instigator of anything.The Fwmc situation wouldn’t be discussed at all if: 1) Bae had been faster at picking up the hypetrain from where they left it. 2) The boys promoted their own Expo activities on their own channels to their own fans in the way that they communities prefer it. Loads of harassment on the comments of that vod as well.Yuck is a mistranslation of a japanese onomatopeya. Mio is a wonderful person, you are looking too much into it. Mio also got targeted horribly by sickos from communities like okbh.Take meds nonnie.
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Respectfully, them being harassed by people also being assholes does not inherently invalidate their actions. You can be both a victim and someone making a victim out of someone else, or more generously, a victim and someone not interfering to help someone else.
I think the notion that it is the fault of Bae or the boys that someone else was impolite to them is extremely unkind. You’re absolutely right that a lot of hateful comments were made, and I don’t condone those.
I don’t go out of my way to harass anyone. But I’m also not going to do what I’m reading you as doing here, which is trying to paint over the questionable actions of otherwise fine people just because they have also been victims of toxicity. This isn’t a binary.
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Yeah, I am the one making a mistake. I shouldn’t be wasting my time trying to spread common sense to regulars of a doxxblog
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The implication there is that just frequenting this site indicates someone is an unreasonable person. I don’t know how I can be any more reasonable with you.
Nor do I know how I can be any more generous in my attempt to respond to you civilly and give a fair interpretation of what you’re saying short of, like. Brushing your hair and rocking you like a baby while we disagree on a fundamental concept like, “You can be a victim of bad things and also do bad things.” That’s the type of moral nuance they’re supposed to teach you in primary school.
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the “bad things”:
I am not surprised this is the mural nuance that regulars of a doxxblog have to share
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The things I’m claiming are bad:
If the substance of my concerns were about the girls who just express a preference in content and found success without involving men in their content creation, I would have listed a lot more of the girls. There’s a lot of the girls who just don’t engage with the boys, and technically they’re all passively contributing to their coworkers being ostracized by some of their fans.
It is, in my eyes, far more productive to point out the ones who contextually made an active choice to pour gas on the metaphorical fire. And even then, I don’t advocate for anything beyond acknowledging that’s what they did. I don’t watch them, but I don’t bother crusading against them either.
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No ever mentions a problem from last week. It’s always these handful of situations from years ago that were prompted by baiters, unfortunate mistakes and/or staff negligence.
You are welcome to continue to be as productive as you want in this holostar community maintained doxxblog
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1) The “even seeing someone interacting with a male content creator, my reaction is Yuck” part, in front of however many hundreds or thousands of viewers were watching the stream at the time. I am paraphrasing. Pretty cleanly fits the latter half of a basic definition of “stigmatize.”
2) You are absolutely correct to point out their lack of experience in a Vtubing context. In a broader entertainment and promotion context, they have been doing this on and off for several years. But more substantively, I again disagree with your assertion that their senpai are responsible for covering for them if it means they deserve no responsibility for the mistake.
3) Neither of us has a way to accurately verify who is or is not part of anyone’s fanbase. We can only hope that your assertion is correct, because that would reflect more positively on her behavior. However, being baited into a pandering response still means you pandered. She is an adult, and therefore responsible for what she says.
4) You don’t actually know anything about my moral character. You’re engaging in ad hominen, and it’s probably not from a desire to no longer discuss the subject since you revived a comment thread from two days ago.
Now in the spirit of goodwill, I am absolutely willing to acknowledge they may have improved in these areas. I brought up these specific instances because someone asked me to explain what I meant by an earlier statement.
I explicitly said these things are not worth freaking out over, and that my reaction is to not give them my personal views or money. If trying to make me a strawman for whoever’s still jumping into their socials or stream chat to harass them makes you feel better, please feel free. But that isn’t me.
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You could replace yuck with the correct onomatopoeia and it would not change anything she said. Maybe I’m starting to get too old for the naivety this community harbors, but I am very tired of acting like every single woman in Holo is a saint when they themselves have admitted that not everybody gets along. You may consider Mio a wonderful person, and I’m sure she is most of the time, but what she said was backhanded; any woman who has been in a working environment or a friend group with other women can pick up on that. She did not have to mention how she felt about her coworkers when she already stated her preference, and yet she still did.
Secondly, FWMC are thirty+ year old women who have been in the idol scene for years. They have no doubt followed both Holo and Niji for a long time and thus have knowledge of Stars, alongside general Hololive events. What they did was unprofessional, they know it, and their actions should not fall onto their junior (as Bae is younger than them) to cover up. That’s not how things work. And you are blatantly lying about the Expo comments as well: I was there since day one of that trainwreck and all I saw were nothing but anti-Stars statements and many misogynistic comments directed at starmin and female management. Any starmin who voiced their disappointment or concern was dogpiled.
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Do not lie about Mio. She referred male vtubers and male content creators. Not male coworkers. She also made it clear there’s no problem about collabing, she has her personal preferences. Imagine that: a woman freely sharing what she prefers.Do not lie about the comments. Go to the vod, sort by new and scroll down a little bit. You’ll find the hate directed at the talents that didn’t get removed.I believe all talents are “saints” (i prefer the less idiotic term “good people”), both in stars and in holo. The communities are very similar as well. Both talents and communities from both branches are subject of harassment.Thankfully for you the stars community isn’t as targeted and as hated as the holo community.
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At least in IRyS’ case I think she was between a rock and a hard place. From how it was told, management was begging girls to join that collab after all the big names completely turned them down, and the ones they got were the only ones in the entire company willing to do it. So singling her out for ire seems really wrong. She was willing to work with them at all, even though it was conditional and no VC, when NOBODY else would. I mean damn, would it have been preferable for her to just hardline put her foot down and completely refuse to have anything at all to do with Holostars? Which is what EVERYONE ELSE DID. She arguably did more with them than most other girls were willing to, not less, and yet she has caught unrelenting shit for it for YEARS. I’m sure she has learned her lesson and will now treat them as completely radioactive.As far as FWMC, I dunno, their silence could be considered rude or just them being caught off guard by something they didn’t expect. I think they don’t want men involved in their careers at all and it’s hard for me to be angry at them about that, it feels unfeminist to sit here and say that women HAVE to involve men in their art/job if they don’t want to.As far as Mio goes, I don’t speak Japanese and can’t comment.
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> she has caught unrelenting shit for it for YEARS. I’m sure she has learned her lesson and will now treat them as completely radioactive.
This is true. And it has to be made very clear: she got shit from culture warriors angry that she was “pandering the incels”.
The comments of the vod were barely moderated and anyone can still go check
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I was not aware of any such information stating that IRyS only agreed to it because of so many others refusing to collaborate with the boys. May I ask for your source on that? I’d have to factor that into my opinion of the situation going forward if true, but I don’t think it would necessarily justify her behavior.
That said, I’m also not interested in hounding her (or anyone else) about it, and I only brought it up to answer someone else’s question. Me feeling passive aggression towards specific talents largely just manifests in me not tuning in for content featuring them. Collabs, covers, orisongs, etc. I’m not one of the folks who’s going to waste time spewing bile in other forums or being a nuisance in chat, anything like that.
As for the FWMC portion, I hoped I had addressed that when I offered that all I would’ve expected from them is a brief explanation of, “We aren’t comfortable interacting with/commenting on these coworkers we don’t know” in their Misunderstanding segment on any morning show after it happened. I’m not the one asking them to involve men in their job– Cover, their employer, did when they were asked to or assigned to being on the stream in question.
I’m definitely not an expert on the subject, and I’m a cis man so I don’t have personal experience in this area, but I don’t think the ask that they react in a polite, friendly manner to all of their co-workers on a promotional stream is any more anti-feminist than the standard expectations of our capitalist hellscape.
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NTA but I do remember Towa talked about HLZNTL at one point and from what she said, it was kind of a mess all around and none of the talents really had any fun with it outside of making some industry connections. I don’t hold anything against the girls for feeling weird about the whole thing either. IRyS’s comments were odd (why would they be in the same VC as their opponents?…), but I chalk it up to the situation overall.
As for your second talking point, I agree that what Fuwamoco did was unprofessional. HoloExpo has always had the Stars included, and even the girls who are strictly “No Men” with their content have been able to either vamp about them or were just quiet and let their other co-host(s) talk for them. There’s a zero % chance they went into that stream with no idea that they weren’t going to see the key art (the guys have always been on it) and outfits with the guys, and Ina & Bae’s reactions to them going silent tells me that they didn’t expect them to do that at all.
(Considering when Advent did the Justice debut watch along and when Liz’s slides showed her drawings of the Stars (which they obviously wouldn’t have known about), Fuwamoco went totally silent and their models immediately went neutral while the rest of Advent were still able to comment says this behavior was intentional.)
I have absolutely no problem with the girls having set their own boundaries. That’s extremely fair and they are the masters of their own content. The boys would be just as valid if they said they would have a policy of “no women on stream” in the same way. However, I will say that that doesn’t give you licence to be a dick and/or unprofessional to people who just exist in your company and don’t interact with you, no matter the popularity. And I would just as disappointed and complain about the boys just as much if they did the exact same thing as in the above instance.
(I’m saying this as a woman who works around men and is still a big fan of the girls.)
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>or were just quiet and let their other co-host(s) talk for them
Is this not literally exactly what Fuwamoco did? They didn’t hiss and say “eww, holostars, fuck off with that shit!”. They just went quiet and let Bae and Ina do the talking.
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I do know what you mean, but not exactly. It was more how it led up to that moment that feels pointed.
(As someone who watched it live) When they got to the section showing off the outfits for all the talents, Fuwamoco were excitedly reacting to all the gens as each passed by. Like “KYAA~ (name)-senpai! It’s (gen name)!” type stuff. Ina and Bae were also reacting and talking, but you can tell they were letting the twins carry the energy forward. It was honestly nice and really wholesome.
But when it got to the Stars, they just fully stopped talking. Dead silence. Bae and Ina were clearly kind of surprised and quickly took over for the boys, but for just, what, 20-30 seconds it felt so awkward.
I guess it’s what the Nonnie below me said: it drew negative attention because prior to that moment there was only positivity.
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NTA, but I think the disagreement here will be the difference between “being quiet and letting co-hosts pick up the slack” versus the utter silence and stonefaced treatment that FuwaMoco have done on the Expo promotion stream and allegedly* on the Justice debut watchalong.
I’m taking the position that there is a difference between those two things. The stonefaced, dead-silent approach is a more extreme version of just assuming a quieter role in the conversation, and draws negative attention because of that extremity making it more disruptive to the flow of said conversation.
*I haven’t gone to watch that VOD yet to see for myself.
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Further elaboration because I’m an idiot and don’t want to mess up my reply’s formatting:
The actual stonefaced silence on the Justice watchalong, if true, indicates an even more extreme response than just what happened on the Expo promo stream. To achieve that effect, you’d have to either actively stay stock-still, turn your model/face tracking off, or get up and walk away from the PC.
The possibility of them just noping out of sitting at their PC for the handful of seconds that a Holostar is on their screen is as comic as it would be tragic, since that’s a pretty extreme response.
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Did my due diligence and went to watch the Justice debut watchalong portion in question. Their behavior didn’t actually strike me as any more awkward or quiet than anyone else, they just smiled and nodded along agreeably. I think it was better handled than the Expo segment, so the demon guard puppies get credit for that.
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you def dont sound like a /#/’s monkey from 4chan
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Excuse you?? Ollie?? Bae??
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Well, when they admit to only doing shit like this because they are ragebaiting for views, it comes off as insincere.
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“They” do you even watch or do you hear what one talent said out of context through the grapevine and then generalize it across multiple guys
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gigi probably wants it that way. i mean this with all the love in the world for her and don’t wanna come across as a gigi hater, but she is definitely the type to want no boys in her idol shows, and that probably extends to her holo career as well. i didn’t follow her PL but i don’t think she had any male interactions back then either.
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more pl activitiesgigi pl also a massive fan of uki. she actively interact with him and drew fanart of him. and we know how raora literally was in merry’s big collab with armis few months before her debut and she’s so close with merry to the point they often travel together in japan.for advent, did you know that nerissa’s pl was there in live chat in past axel’s stream.Then after hololive they suddenly act like they don’t like male
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it’s really shitty how they act like fans at first but then throw the boys away the second they find success in hololive…. it’s like the boys are just stepping stones to them. so many indie female vtubers claimed to be fans back when tempus debuted and then just vanished over time because they just wanted to latch themselves onto the new big thing. i’m starting to see who the real leeches are.
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Nobody was leeching from Holostars, let’s be real, they’re reasonably successful but very far from superstars.
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You need to work on that misogyny
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Elysium nonnies complain about the boys’ circumstances without being blatant misogynists challenge
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Dude Raora did not need to leech of of the boys what are you on about lol. She was the mama of several significant female vtubers and Merry is her boyfriend, interaction with the boys was coincidental to her generally large presence in the scene. Nerissa was similarly an established VA/anisong cover singer with individual videos racking up 10M+ views before joining Holo. Gigi was a member of V4Mirai who had already had her 3D debut and proven her ability for diverse stream content/fanbase building.
Claiming these women got their places in Holo simply by leeching men then throwing them away is ridiculously reductive to their prior careers. I know you’re upset but get a grip. They interacted with the boys and were open fans of them because they wanted to be, not because they needed to leech the numbers.
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I still cannot fathom how anybody gets this pressed about women being successful while not talking to men.
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its just business
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As someone who has only watches the guys this is the biggest schizo reach ever. I love my mans with all my heart. I give all my extra money to my oshi, but even I think your statement is either bait or the dumbest comment in history by saying the girls are using them as a stepping stone, when most of the girls have an avg of 4k+ on a bad day is extremely stupid. How can they be a stepping stone when the audience is not even the same *smacks you in your empty ass head* think use your brain and think
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i was talking about when they were indies dumbass reading comprehension doko
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Who has ever actually gotten more successful interacting with a Holostar? Nobody. And in most of these cases (all of these cases?) we aren’t even talking about collabs, just freaking tweets.
They were just normal fans. Stop being schizo
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Depending on how you wanna quantify it, Nana’s collab with Octavio is her secondmost popular cover on YouTube, and her most popular in over a year. Her post-cover release stream with Jurard is her second most-viewed VOD period on YouTube.But zero shade towards Nana, she’s fun as fuck.
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I think it was revealed back in nyfco under the advent page that Nerissa’s PL is a vestie. Her pl name was in chat while waiting for Vesper’s stream.
Ngl, but I think most of the girls want their pl separated from their Hololive which probably includes their interaction with male vtubers in the past. They do seem to be aware of how rabid the Hololive EN fandom is when it comes to interacting with male vtubers/streamers inside and outside of HoloPro. But again, it’s a job after all. Maybe behind the scenes and off-stream, they might have interacted with the boys which is none of our business.
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>Nerissa’s PL is a vestie
Nerissa was a Day 1 chumbud lol. That was how a lot of people first learnt of her name: Gura sang her English version of Plastic Love
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I have to wonder how some of the boys feel about something like that. “Hi, I’d love to talk to you, but I’m not going to acknowledge your existence on my streams because you’re bad for business.” is not exactly a flattering foundation to build a friendship on.
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I don’t know why the assumption seems to be this when we really don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. It’s bad for the girls, but the boys also get vehemently shat on whenever they interact with the girls– if we’re speculating it could very well be that there’s a general agreement on both sides that separation is better for everybody’s sake because of rabid fanbases. I find it concerning that so many are quick to jump on “it’s the girls choosing this for profit” despite the known behavior of fanbases beyond their control. Even before StarsEN debuted, girls would talk about being scared for their safety and Ame even mentioned sleeping with a bat and getting scared over small noises thinking it was inevitable that a crazy fan would eventually find her address. I’m not assuming anything, but there’s plenty to argue against putting such a self-interested negative light on the girls if you’re going to make baseless claims.
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It’s still incredibly degrading and demeaning to go “Hey I know I have one of the worst fanbases on earth and they’ll think they you interacting with me means you want to date me and be a sex pest or they’ll harass you and doxx you but do you wanna be friends fellow coworker :D” . The girls have it rough as any female content creators do and I would never ever blame them for fearing for their safety. But they DO encourage their fanbase of simps and do it for profit yes it’s bad for business. There’s a reason why ERB fans don’t harass any of the boys. There’s a reason why Ollie fans don’t harass any of the boys. I feel for the girls immensely, they have one of the worst positions to be in as a female content creator but also let’s not lie and say it’s for the boys sake as well and that this could be some sort of we both love having secret friendships situation when the boys have been out and willing to take it. We are both just speculating.
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>Hey I know I have one of the worst fanbases on earth
You don”t want Holostars to succeed at all, huh?
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You’re making up stuff to get angry about. It’s just as likely that most Hololive girls don’t talk to the holostars at all “behind the scenes”.
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This is different than characterizing them as behind the scenes forming self-interested and disingenous friendships with the boys based on nothing. I don’t disagree with you here, but still disagree with the post I originally replied to.
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i know. still find it sad and weird having to dance around even just saying their name.
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advent new outfitssss. Nerissa silouette looks great
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Outfitschizo i thought you were going on a self improvement arc
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outfitschizo?
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Individual who admitted to using vpns to crush any positive discussion of the girls outfits because their existence makes them cry
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Hi I know I cant prove it but that was me. I took a break after that chat and got over myself, and I was only upset about the kimonos to begin with. It was a lot more about personal shit than the talents honestly.
None of whatever has been going on today was me though I dunno what the hell is going on in here today
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mococo’s hair looks almost identical to her original style, hope there’s more differences than the silhouette suggests
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Yeah same, especially since Fuwawa looks like she’s gotten cute new hair.
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Shiori’s new outfit probably won’t be a nurse because it doesn’t fit the casual theme other members seem to be going with but like… the silhouette… it would be so hot if it was a nurse…
Also nerissa’s short hair is going to kill me.
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it seems like shiorin’s gonna have a detective outfit based on the hashtag right? #shiosleuth
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Oh shit, I’m not on twitter so I didn’t realize… Would be cute and perfect for her since she’s always been a huge fan of detective novels.
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It’d be really cute for her. Goth detective sounds badass
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I’m sorry but does anyone know who this is talking about?
I’ve never seen or heard of a vtuber alt talking about this on my TL & this sounds so insane and outlandish to tweet. 😭😭😭
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Dunno who this is or who tf hes talking about and I dont care
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who is this? why should i care about him or the person he’s talking about?? is this another ad???
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Nah I doubt it
Some of us are just curious & nosy 😛
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is this about shinri???????
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he deleted his alt nearly a year ago and would never ridicule anyone for being sex positive, anon
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it was me, dio!
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it could be literally anyone nonnie
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feel like I’ve seen it but i really dont remember who
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From how many insane stories I hear abt certain vtubers in the community it could literally be so many people omg I am curious af too
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he needs a mirror
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I’ll come back later 🍿
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I’m just going to say this, please, ANYONE! Upload the red pilot being bare backed.
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https://rule34.xxx/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=machina_x_flayon+
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THANKS
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Nipple Colors of Holostars English
Altare – Pale Dusty Rose
Axel – Georgia Peach
Bettel – Peony Pink
Flayon – Pacific Salmon
Hakka – Pastel Mauve
Shinri – Belgian Chocolate
Jurard -Light Coral
Gold Bullet- Caramel Pecan
Octavio – Lavender Blush
Ruze – Fawn
Their lips and tip should also match ❤️
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are these nipple colors or lipstick shades
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.
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source?
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i miss axels pepperoni nipples nonnie
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the way you named the color…
It definitely not Shinri favourite way of description 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He hate confusing name of food taste, of course he’s going to be so confused on confusing name color too
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I want a handsome Japanese boyfriend. I’m gonna go to Japan and seduce tokimane.
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Tokimane or Toramane?
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How is that toramane?
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Hakka just confirmed that Tokimane is handsome. so it’s him.
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do you prefer young, cunningly handsome Tokimane, or middle-age, obliviously hot, divorced dad Toramane?
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yes
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guys I know it’s weird to ask you this. but why corpo male vtubers don’t have nipples? Even in official artwork, they rarely show them. Are nipples considered too sexual for professional setting?
#freethenipple
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when you join a vtuber corporation they cut off your nipples like the soldiers from game of thrones
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Wtf? No? when you join a corpo you and your genmates bite off each others nipples as a rite of companionship. Lurk more, evbdy knows this. Mechabirbo was originally popular BECAUSE they were each others designated nipple brothers.
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they got it removed before debut
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oh shit, working on nipple assets right away so they can pin them back onto their models
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anime males don’t have nipples
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false, go read a BL
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if vtubers are considered anime characters, then the same question applies to not seeing nipples on anime characters either (for the most part anyway)
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Anime men all actually come from a rectified biological timeline in which vestigial nipples in men have disappeared.
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