I wonder if the Hololive TCG will ever get Holostars cards.Considering that it’s a game you play with others, that sounds like a perfect way to expose newbies in the Hololive fandom to the Stars side
Stars needs to advertise to and court a new audience of its own. Hololive’s audience isn’t there for them and never will be. Not sure how many times this has to be repeated before you understand that.
The problem isn’t that Hololive fans don’t know who Holostars are, it’s that they don’t want to watch them because a bunch of male nerd guys don’t want to watch anime men. Exposure doesn’t fix this. Holostars fanbase has to come from somewhere else, the well of trying to convert Hololive fans to “also Holostars” fans is so dry it might as well be the Sahara Desert. It has been tried, a lot, in lots of different ways, for years and years and years, and it never works
I think it would work if they hired a vtuber who was more straight and simple a relatable otaku whos also a cracked gamer but the kind of guy that’s going to appeal to the girls’ fanbase is antithetical to what’s acknowledged as the profitable fanbase for male vtubers in the west. Like just doing the bare minimum of fanservice towards women, intentional or not, is enough to get you sworn off by most male viewers which is why Altare, who fits the above mold, was excluded as a possible oshi from the beginning for his voice. Ruze is another one who on paper somewhat fits the bill of what might sell with a male audience but obviously gets crossed off because he’s more openly “woke”. We absolutely still could have a HoloStar that finds success with male audiences but it’s antithetical to the established brand and tbh I don’t think the existing Stars audience, me included, wants that.
this theory of the western vtuber market also has legs when you compare with NijiEN’s crossgender audience overlap compared to JP. I’d say that JP was successful in both having male fans who will watch males and female fans who will watch women. Whereas for EN they only ever really achieved female fans who will consistently watch a select few of the women.
It’s fascinating to see and I have to wonder whether it’s a result of Western culture itself (i.e. the tendency to use consumed media, including streamers, to represent individual values/politics) or something more specifically endemic to the Western vtubing audience.
VTubing is mainstream in Japan, while it is a massive niche in the West, that is why. The amount of women who are both into anime and streamers is a very small amount in Western countries.
Guys not wanting to watch anime guys is fundamentally not the issue, as proven by the numerous male NijiJP livers who have significant followings comprised primarily of men. Actually this isn’t even limited to Niji, several prominent names on the JP side of indie vtubing as well are males with mostly male followings. The issue is that Hololive is an idol company at its root and the primary market for male idol vtubers was always going to be women. It doesn’t matter whether they actually fit the bill of male idols, it’s simply the primary understanding of the Stars that laymen are going to have and Holo does not do much to change this image.
Kuzuha’s paying actual fans are women, go look at his merch. It’s all frilly bows and jewelry and yaoi ships.
Yes I’ve heard over the years a lot that he has tons of male fans, personally I think it’s nonsense, but even if he does, they clearly aren’t his fans that pay the bills
I hesitate to bring up Chaika because his design and concept is so controversial with Western fans but he’s another example of a male with a virtually all-male audience that performs well simply because he’s a funny and relatable guy over 30
Yashiro Kizuku was the first “successful” male liver that Niji had and still remains one of the most popular males even if he doesn’t get clipped that often by Western fans. His audience is still majority male.
There are a lot of factors that contribute to this success but an early example that corroborates well with prior talking points is that he’s such an unparalleled rhythm gamer that playing them on stream inadverdently doxxed his PL. Men just aren’t going to choose another man over a cute girl unless the man in question is bringing something to the table.
I honestly don’t think modern Niji is capable of producing another Yashiro Kizuku, though. Niji has also become more and more “idolified” in recent years, or at the very least only aims for success through the narrow archetype of a youthful bishounen. It’s a bizzarre tactic IMO in a market that’s so oversaturated as-is.
My favorites are still around doing what they like I guess but I honestly miss the old days of NijiJP. Corpo vtubing isn’t what it used to be and even if the indie scene is more willing to experiment, it still feels fundamentally different.
I’m not talking about Kuzuha, Yashiro, Kenmochi, and Kagami are all prominent male vtubers who set significant records for the success a male vtuber could find early in the field’s development while having at minimum even male-female splits. I’d actually say Yashiro and Kenmochi even had audiences that leaned towards being mostly male while still being successful. I’m not considering the modern day where ROFMAO has obviously skewed Kenmochi and shachou’s viewership towards female, this is solely considering historic milestones they’ve reached prior to current era.
IG you could discount these examples by saying pandering to women is far more profitable, but that’s a “no shit, sherlock” argument. Of course delulu gachis are always going to be the biggest paypigs. But the question was whether a successful career built on a same gender audience was possible, and several NijiJP men have sustained themselves on that for years.
I want to point out that this is also reinforced when you look at the JP stars that gain the most widespread popularity– it’s always the ones that have something going for them that establishes them very notably outside the idol image and garners them male fans whether it’s the type of zatsu they do or their gaming skill.
I’m sorry to make comparisons but this is what I see having been a vtuber fan since 2019 and watching trends rise and fall.
back in my day, I would trade rare digimon cards for Angemon this will be me again with my male friends trading a SSS Holographic Pekora for a C Bettel
I just stumlbed upon a clip of that Rock-Paper-Scissors tournament by Pekora.
They have studio time and human resource to support that kind of frivolous project but none at all for a Countdown 3D Show on our side? What the freak?
Yes actually. She collabed with HIkakin before. Pekora isn’t above doing things with male streamers. THere’s definitely a road toward making her collab with Stars somehow.
Curious how in the past few days an extremely recognizable ESL suddenly popped up making obviously derogatory posts revelling in the infighting yet for some reason nonnies here keep falling for the smattering of falseflag posts obviously coming from the same person. They’re not even masking well, guys. Come on.
Better to report those posts and never engage at all. I wish I had that pic of a magmite saying “wow food” just a reminder for nonnies here to stop falling into obvious baits.
Ngl, people these days are guillable to grifter and bait content and that reinforce those grifters and dramaseekers to make profit out of it.
peko’s normal streams get more viewership than anything stars has ever done. it’s best not to look at holo and say “why don’t the boys get that?” because you’re looking at an entirely different league. it would honestly be better to treat holostars as if it were an entirely different small corpo. the only thing the two branches share is perms, and even that differs between EN and JP.
The Stars’ situation could definitely be better but I also think we forget that they fundamentally do get a lot more than males in any other corpo outside of maybe the better performing half of NijiJP males.
>they provide better support than everybody except sometimes nijijp, who is behind the world’s most profitable male vtubers and has far more financial incentive than stars management to give resources
Ik it was demoralizing for you when you did so poorly on reading comprehension tests in the 3rd grade but i do think you should have internalized that shame a bit more
Pekora has been in hololive longer than holostars was ever even a thing and consistently brings in viewership and money (ffs her DBZ streams from a few months ago had 100k+ people watching).
Also Hololive JP gen 3 was the generation to help put Hololive on the map.
Her clout is the reason it got that much support and viewership and she’s earned that through hard work and constant innovation.
People forget that this is a business and the idea with all of this is to make money. Also concerts take months of time, practice sessions, choreographers, rehearsals, they have to record each song individually and they don’t do it in one take, etc.
I mean if you’re a business and you can get 150,000 people to watch your rabbit host a rock paper scissors tournament, or you can get 1/10th (if you’re lucky) of that for a concert that takes 20x more work and money, what do you do?
even Suisei, who’s having concerts and collabs with big musicians all over the place? that Suisei? the one who’s so busy she didn’t even appear in the Hololive New Year’s countdown?
have the boys even implied that they want collabs with the girls?
What possible insane reason could you have for thinking Pekora or Suisei or any other major Hololive girl owes the Holostars a goddamn thing? You’re insane.
Do you realize the only reason the Holostars exist and have the success and resources they have (WHICH IS A LOT, LOOK AT INDIES) is because of the work of those girls?? The debt is the other way around nonnie
Why would they? The girls earned their place in the vtuber industry fair and square. If the JP boys can’t build their presence independently, then that’s on them.
Aside from the m&g, anybody here know why anime impulse panel/karaoke/activities with talents are always ticketed? I’m curious since in other convention that sort of activities are free or paid by the con.
genuinely, it’s because too many people would go to them and the space would be uncomfortable and cramped and hard to manage if they were free. they ticket them to make them a kind of “first come first serve” thing and keep them a manageable size.
I remember when Hololive had a panel at a con (think it was Ame and someone else from Myth or Council) and I realized I was late to it. Got there and, outside their biggest room, there was a line wrapping around the hall…and it was for if people left so you could have a slim chance to get into the panel.
So as dumb as it sounds, better to pay for a panel ticket and get guaranteed entry than to sit outside and hope people leave so you can get it.
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I want to gargle Shinris hairy balls please and thank you
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my penis hurt
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Show us the x ray
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As long as your prostate is fine its all good
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become my eunuch, boy
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Typical SEA hours.
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I wonder if the Hololive TCG will ever get Holostars cards.Considering that it’s a game you play with others, that sounds like a perfect way to expose newbies in the Hololive fandom to the Stars side
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There is already holostars weiss schwarz cards, they solved this segregation long ago
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Stars needs to advertise to and court a new audience of its own. Hololive’s audience isn’t there for them and never will be. Not sure how many times this has to be repeated before you understand that.
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Please use your brain and learn to recognize false flags.
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The problem isn’t that Hololive fans don’t know who Holostars are, it’s that they don’t want to watch them because a bunch of male nerd guys don’t want to watch anime men. Exposure doesn’t fix this. Holostars fanbase has to come from somewhere else, the well of trying to convert Hololive fans to “also Holostars” fans is so dry it might as well be the Sahara Desert. It has been tried, a lot, in lots of different ways, for years and years and years, and it never works
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I think it would work if they hired a vtuber who was more straight and simple a relatable otaku whos also a cracked gamer but the kind of guy that’s going to appeal to the girls’ fanbase is antithetical to what’s acknowledged as the profitable fanbase for male vtubers in the west. Like just doing the bare minimum of fanservice towards women, intentional or not, is enough to get you sworn off by most male viewers which is why Altare, who fits the above mold, was excluded as a possible oshi from the beginning for his voice. Ruze is another one who on paper somewhat fits the bill of what might sell with a male audience but obviously gets crossed off because he’s more openly “woke”. We absolutely still could have a HoloStar that finds success with male audiences but it’s antithetical to the established brand and tbh I don’t think the existing Stars audience, me included, wants that.
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this theory of the western vtuber market also has legs when you compare with NijiEN’s crossgender audience overlap compared to JP. I’d say that JP was successful in both having male fans who will watch males and female fans who will watch women. Whereas for EN they only ever really achieved female fans who will consistently watch a select few of the women.
It’s fascinating to see and I have to wonder whether it’s a result of Western culture itself (i.e. the tendency to use consumed media, including streamers, to represent individual values/politics) or something more specifically endemic to the Western vtubing audience.
Report
VTubing is mainstream in Japan, while it is a massive niche in the West, that is why. The amount of women who are both into anime and streamers is a very small amount in Western countries.
Report
There’s a simple answer: Toxic masculinity.
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Guys not wanting to watch anime guys is fundamentally not the issue, as proven by the numerous male NijiJP livers who have significant followings comprised primarily of men. Actually this isn’t even limited to Niji, several prominent names on the JP side of indie vtubing as well are males with mostly male followings. The issue is that Hololive is an idol company at its root and the primary market for male idol vtubers was always going to be women. It doesn’t matter whether they actually fit the bill of male idols, it’s simply the primary understanding of the Stars that laymen are going to have and Holo does not do much to change this image.
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Kuzuha’s paying actual fans are women, go look at his merch. It’s all frilly bows and jewelry and yaoi ships.
Yes I’ve heard over the years a lot that he has tons of male fans, personally I think it’s nonsense, but even if he does, they clearly aren’t his fans that pay the bills
Report
I hesitate to bring up Chaika because his design and concept is so controversial with Western fans but he’s another example of a male with a virtually all-male audience that performs well simply because he’s a funny and relatable guy over 30
Report
Yashiro Kizuku was the first “successful” male liver that Niji had and still remains one of the most popular males even if he doesn’t get clipped that often by Western fans. His audience is still majority male.
There are a lot of factors that contribute to this success but an early example that corroborates well with prior talking points is that he’s such an unparalleled rhythm gamer that playing them on stream inadverdently doxxed his PL. Men just aren’t going to choose another man over a cute girl unless the man in question is bringing something to the table.
Report
I honestly don’t think modern Niji is capable of producing another Yashiro Kizuku, though. Niji has also become more and more “idolified” in recent years, or at the very least only aims for success through the narrow archetype of a youthful bishounen. It’s a bizzarre tactic IMO in a market that’s so oversaturated as-is.
My favorites are still around doing what they like I guess but I honestly miss the old days of NijiJP. Corpo vtubing isn’t what it used to be and even if the indie scene is more willing to experiment, it still feels fundamentally different.
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I’m not talking about Kuzuha, Yashiro, Kenmochi, and Kagami are all prominent male vtubers who set significant records for the success a male vtuber could find early in the field’s development while having at minimum even male-female splits. I’d actually say Yashiro and Kenmochi even had audiences that leaned towards being mostly male while still being successful. I’m not considering the modern day where ROFMAO has obviously skewed Kenmochi and shachou’s viewership towards female, this is solely considering historic milestones they’ve reached prior to current era.
IG you could discount these examples by saying pandering to women is far more profitable, but that’s a “no shit, sherlock” argument. Of course delulu gachis are always going to be the biggest paypigs. But the question was whether a successful career built on a same gender audience was possible, and several NijiJP men have sustained themselves on that for years.
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Kuzuha also doesn’t really work as a rebuttal point because it’s akin to comparing an average “successful” female vtuber against, like, Gawr Gura lol
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I want to point out that this is also reinforced when you look at the JP stars that gain the most widespread popularity– it’s always the ones that have something going for them that establishes them very notably outside the idol image and garners them male fans whether it’s the type of zatsu they do or their gaming skill.
I’m sorry to make comparisons but this is what I see having been a vtuber fan since 2019 and watching trends rise and fall.
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back in my day, I would trade rare digimon cards for Angemon this will be me again with my male friends trading a SSS Holographic Pekora for a C Bettel
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The NSFW nonnies are sleeping
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both are naked and covered in oil. who’s winning the twerk off?
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Me
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I just stumlbed upon a clip of that Rock-Paper-Scissors tournament by Pekora.
They have studio time and human resource to support that kind of frivolous project but none at all for a Countdown 3D Show on our side? What the freak?
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What do you want us to do, taking up arms and complaining on twitter about… Pekora?
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Yes actually. She collabed with HIkakin before. Pekora isn’t above doing things with male streamers. THere’s definitely a road toward making her collab with Stars somehow.
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Isn’t Hikakin the no.1 youtuber in Japan like what is she going to do, turn that down? Lol
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Thanks to investors and shit, management now cares about numbers more than anything, and the rabbit gives them numbers.
You don’t want that, best go to another agency
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Curious how in the past few days an extremely recognizable ESL suddenly popped up making obviously derogatory posts revelling in the infighting yet for some reason nonnies here keep falling for the smattering of falseflag posts obviously coming from the same person. They’re not even masking well, guys. Come on.
Report
Better to report those posts and never engage at all. I wish I had that pic of a magmite saying “wow food” just a reminder for nonnies here to stop falling into obvious baits.
Ngl, people these days are guillable to grifter and bait content and that reinforce those grifters and dramaseekers to make profit out of it.
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I’m not taking the bait, just replying it because I’m smart.
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–
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Thanks, nonnie!
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people forget that most Holos weren’t guranteed amazing viewership back when gen 3 was new.
There was a time Sakura Miko of all talents was a 2view struggling to make new fans.
The boys need to start pulling their weight if they want things.
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peko’s normal streams get more viewership than anything stars has ever done. it’s best not to look at holo and say “why don’t the boys get that?” because you’re looking at an entirely different league. it would honestly be better to treat holostars as if it were an entirely different small corpo. the only thing the two branches share is perms, and even that differs between EN and JP.
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The Stars’ situation could definitely be better but I also think we forget that they fundamentally do get a lot more than males in any other corpo outside of maybe the better performing half of NijiJP males.
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Sounds like a cope.
And again, that “success” doesn’t translate to anything substantiasl if we still have to beg for Cover’s good will to sponsor Holostars programs
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They received goodwill for years and ultimately only a few out of many of them ever returned significant profit
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>They are better than everyone excluding the ones who are better than them
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>they provide better support than everybody except sometimes nijijp, who is behind the world’s most profitable male vtubers and has far more financial incentive than stars management to give resources
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Ik it was demoralizing for you when you did so poorly on reading comprehension tests in the 3rd grade but i do think you should have internalized that shame a bit more
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Funny that you’re comparing to Pekora of all people. You know, the top most watched rabbit entertainer in recent history.
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Yet again wondering when you’ll be able to voice complaints without putting down things the girls do
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Pekora has been in hololive longer than holostars was ever even a thing and consistently brings in viewership and money (ffs her DBZ streams from a few months ago had 100k+ people watching).
Also Hololive JP gen 3 was the generation to help put Hololive on the map.
Her clout is the reason it got that much support and viewership and she’s earned that through hard work and constant innovation.
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>through hard work and constant innovation.
But enough about Holostars
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Where are the tangible results man
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That frivolous project had 150k concurrent live viewers watching it. The last Holostars New Years countdown got 12k. It’s not worth the effort
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People forget that this is a business and the idea with all of this is to make money. Also concerts take months of time, practice sessions, choreographers, rehearsals, they have to record each song individually and they don’t do it in one take, etc.
I mean if you’re a business and you can get 150,000 people to watch your rabbit host a rock paper scissors tournament, or you can get 1/10th (if you’re lucky) of that for a concert that takes 20x more work and money, what do you do?
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It’s Pekora.
You think anyone can reject a proposal from Pekora or Miko or Suisei?
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In a way, it’s sad that the top dogs in HoloJP don’t collab with the Stars side.
Even Suisei has scaled that back a lot this past year.
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even Suisei, who’s having concerts and collabs with big musicians all over the place? that Suisei? the one who’s so busy she didn’t even appear in the Hololive New Year’s countdown?
have the boys even implied that they want collabs with the girls?
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>have the boys even implied that they want collabs with the girls?
That’s like asking “Does anyone even want collabs with Gura?”.
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Because they owe them that or something…?
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Unpopular opinion: Yes they kinda do.
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Ive watched stars since before en and fans like you still always get me feeling like this lol
I feel pride in my sisters success before anything else
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What possible insane reason could you have for thinking Pekora or Suisei or any other major Hololive girl owes the Holostars a goddamn thing? You’re insane.
Do you realize the only reason the Holostars exist and have the success and resources they have (WHICH IS A LOT, LOOK AT INDIES) is because of the work of those girls?? The debt is the other way around nonnie
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Senpai are supposed to raise kouhai up.
Otherwise, it’s just dogs eat dogs.
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Why would they? The girls earned their place in the vtuber industry fair and square. If the JP boys can’t build their presence independently, then that’s on them.
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go back to /vt/
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Aside from the m&g, anybody here know why anime impulse panel/karaoke/activities with talents are always ticketed? I’m curious since in other convention that sort of activities are free or paid by the con.
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genuinely, it’s because too many people would go to them and the space would be uncomfortable and cramped and hard to manage if they were free. they ticket them to make them a kind of “first come first serve” thing and keep them a manageable size.
Report
I remember when Hololive had a panel at a con (think it was Ame and someone else from Myth or Council) and I realized I was late to it. Got there and, outside their biggest room, there was a line wrapping around the hall…and it was for if people left so you could have a slim chance to get into the panel.
So as dumb as it sounds, better to pay for a panel ticket and get guaranteed entry than to sit outside and hope people leave so you can get it.
Report